PP Reward: Position Specialization

[RonCo]

I admit I've never really understood exactly how this reward actually gets calculated.

[udlb58]

OOTP is considerably better at people leaning new positions if they are "similar" (IF to IF, OF to OF) and down the defensive spectrum. The need for this reward is probably getting close to non existent. Who are you thinking about?

I can't speak for Brett's player. But I was curious about trying this myself with Chris Workman. I see Ted's point. He went from 0-5 at 3B in just 80 games(lifted for defensive sub in the 7th). With some reps in spring training he would gain even more experiance. But my reasoning is that he can get there faster with this reward. Maybe it gets him to 7 and then spring reps pushes him to 8? 8 Exp should make him an average/ slightly above average defender while 6 is well below.

With 6 arm and 4 range, Workman will never be better than a 6 (and that is only because of the high Error rating0 position rating at 3B.

[Ted]

Besides, I was just asking. We can use PPs to add a nickname to someone, why would it hurt to be able to have this option as well. Who cares if it never gets used...its there if you want to use it.

And I was answering. Honestly and the the best of my ability. I don't think your asking was unreasonable. My answer was to indicate that in my opinion and OOTP experience, spending PP in the current version to teach a player an easier position is a waste of PP, regardless of age. You simply don't need to do it. Disagree all you like. You've certainly shown that you've managed to do things I wouldn't and build the beginning of a solid team. But again, you asked. I answered. If you don't want honest answer (that may be wrong because I don't know everything), then don't ask in a public forum.

Grab a beer Ted and watch Norte Dame take a beating tonight.

All-in-all, I just think this PP reward would be better for older guys in their waning years of the BBA as opposed to the younger ones that have never made it to the BBA. Maybe it could even make sense to set it up for those corner OF guys that have crap ratings at 1B to allow for a better conversion. RP converts get get bumps to their pitches and speed. Maybe that corner OF guy could go from a 1 to a 3 for IF range or something. I know, use ST and sprinkle him in at the other position here and there and he’ll get the bumps. Why can’t it be used like an aging vet being told to learn a new position in the off season? Don’t just poo on the idea because you don’t like it, have a beer and throw out ideas that might make it worthwhile. Could be the one thing that gets you over the top for a Landis at some point.

Are you suggesting the reward allow us to increase a player's range? Because umm. No. Spending PP to tell a pitcher to throw harder out of the pen and focus on two pitches is one thing. Magically making him cover move ground at at 31 is not very realistic. Otherwise, the range (or error, or arm, or whatever) isn't going to change (except go down) for an older player.

Regarding your comment about "pooing" on the idea, what do you want me to do? Never comment if I think someone is making a mistake or not using resources wisely? Lie? I guess I could do that. I think it's actually better to not let people shoot themselves in the foot. You seem to have this idea that I'm irritated or something. I'm not. I just answer when people talk at me, and I don't agree for the sake of not ruffling feathers. I think that's a pretty poor way to live and shows a lack of concern for the people whose feathers you might ruffle. But whatever. I'm bored now.

[Ted]

OOTP is considerably better at people leaning new positions if they are "similar" (IF to IF, OF to OF) and down the defensive spectrum. The need for this reward is probably getting close to non existent. Who are you thinking about?

I can't speak for Brett's player. But I was curious about trying this myself with Chris Workman. I see Ted's point. He went from 0-5 at 3B in just 80 games(lifted for defensive sub in the 7th). With some reps in spring training he would gain even more experiance. But my reasoning is that he can get there faster with this reward. Maybe it gets him to 7 and then spring reps pushes him to 8? 8 Exp should make him an average/ slightly above average defender while 6 is well below.

With 6 arm and 4 range, Workman will never be better than a 6 (and that is only because of the high Error rating0 position rating at 3B.

This. Just checked. The version of Workman who is almost 5/10/7/11 with 200 exp at 3rd is a 6 there.

[GoldenOne]

Jose Morales please. Should be in AAA.

The idea that range cannot get better is less magical than thinking someones cutter or forkball can get better because you decide to stop throwing a curveball. Would Max Scherzer's fastball and slider get magically better because he stops throwing a changeup? Probably not. Would Bryce Harper's IF range get better if he only ever plays 1B again? Probably. Might not be drastic, but it can get better. Once you learn a position better and play it more often, you get more used to the position and what you can do there. Your arm is your arm and no matter how many grounders Roger Dorn takes in practice, he's still going to regress to his mean when it comes to making errors. But, range can be learned.

So, Tyler asked about this last season and Matt you told him to post a poll, but it never happened. I'd like to second the idea of looking at it again. I agree with removing the age restriction, so you can say move an aging CF to a corner or a SS to 3rd or whatever. So how about this proposal? I'll make a poll if you want.

Any player is eligible. The reward can only be used to move "down" either the OF or IF spectrum. It can't be used to put an OF in the IF or vice versa. You can only use it if a player has a rating at the new position of 3 or less, and they have to be 6 or higher in the position they are already at. The reward is to use 0-40 PP to get a player 0-40 points of experience on the internal slider at an eligible position as described above.

The idea is that a former CF of SS SHOULD be able to play the other positions either in the OF or IF, respectively with at least some proficiency. So if you have an OF with a 7 rating in center, but no rating in RF and a 1 in LF, you can get a jump start on transitioning him and maybe get another point or two of defense at the position in spring training.

This sounds powerful, but the limit of having to have a 3 or lower rating at the position you are transferring to would limit it somewhat, and I think it helps patch a problem OOTP has with realism in its defensive ratings. A competent (which is why we said at least 6) defender at a premium position SHOULD be able to play at at least a slightly below replacement level at other similar positions.

Seems like you were in favor of the idea not too long ago. I get it, newer versions have changed things a little and made learning new positions a little bit easier. Its not always as simple as playing someone in a position for 15 games in ST though. Maybe I want him to learn another position as well. Maybe I have others I want to have learn the same position. Plus, my regular needs to play there as well.

Besides, I was just asking. We can use PPs to add a nickname to someone, why would it hurt to be able to have this option as well. Who cares if it never gets used...its there if you want to use it.

And I was answering. Honestly and the the best of my ability. I don't think your asking was unreasonable. My answer was to indicate that in my opinion and OOTP experience, spending PP in the current version to teach a player an easier position is a waste of PP, regardless of age. You simply don't need to do it. Disagree all you like. You've certainly shown that you've managed to do things I wouldn't and build the beginning of a solid team. But again, you asked. I answered. If you don't want honest answer (that may be wrong because I don't know everything), then don't ask in a public forum.

If you look back, my ask was whether or not this went anywhere, after your posted proposal for how it might work. The only "honest" answer that was needed to my questions was 'yes' or 'no'.

Regarding your comment about "pooing" on the idea, what do you want me to do? Never comment if I think someone is making a mistake or not using resources wisely? Lie? I guess I could do that. I think it's actually better to not let people shoot themselves in the foot. You seem to have this idea that I'm irritated or something. I'm not. I just answer when people talk at me, and I don't agree for the sake of not ruffling feathers. I think that's a pretty poor way to live and shows a lack of concern for the people whose feathers you might ruffle. But whatever. I'm bored now.

Yes, you gave some constructive insight - play the guy there in ST for 15 games. All your comment was was about someone having the ability to not use their resources wisely. Luckily, you are not the sole decider on whether or not your recommendation gets implemented or not. Seems like there was some interest last year, maybe it still exists. Seems like there is at least some interest in this though, since its already been tried to be used. I'm willing to bet this would get used more than the RP to SP conversion, which, without trying to track down the thread, I believe has only been used twice now? Yet, that option is still there.

So, just in case it gets decided to discuss this topic more, I am in favor of opening up this option to guys already in the BBA. Adjust it however, but I think the option should be there and I think it should have some considerations for an OF moving to IF or IF moving to OF, as long as its down the defensive spectrum. If not, of well, it probably wont affect me too much in the end. (I would like to see it get implemented if for nothing else than to see Ted and .)

[usnspecialist]

i haven't seen brett sea-lawyer someone like this in awhile, this is rather entertaining.

[udlb58]

I just want to point out that I absolutely DID post a poll when I first suggested this (despite Ted saying I didn't ). But I have just decided that trying to change these PP reward perks wasn't worth the effort and quit trying to push these forward.

I've said this before, but this reward is COMPLETELY useless as is. As evidenced by the fact that nobody has ever used it.

[ae37jr]

I believe you guys are right. But I'm still going to try it out with Workman just to resolve this argument. 20 PP is just 20 PP. If it doesn't improve his rating at all, I'll laugh along with you guys. If he turns into Brooks Robinson I'll be sure to write an article about how everyone was wrong.

[Ted]

Brett, I'm not going to argue with you in an open forum anymore. I don't agree that the current version, or any of the previously proposed versions (including mine) are very useful anymore. I'd prefer we could not alter player ratings in any way, and I don't want to add new ones. I'd support getting rid of rp conversions. I'm perplexed as to why you are so up in arms that I think nothing needs to be changed. I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong, but nothing that's been said convinces me of the case, and as I said last time, I'm bored to death with this topic. I'm not going to read this thread anymore. If you feel the need to discuss it further, you can PM me.

[RonCo]

One of the things about PPT rewards I think gets a short shift sometimes is merely if it makes someone happy. Position mods like this might help a player, but generally don't make a huge deal. If someone wants to spend points on it because they think it might or just because they like the fictional side, though, fine by me.

I've done weird things at times just cause it's fun.

[BaseClogger]

It’s frustrating to have a player in the BBA (24 year old Michael Schultz) who is ineligible for this reward because he’s in the majors but he’s also ineligible for 1B specialization because of his age. Realistically there shouldn’t be anything holding him back—the team wants him at 1B.

[recte44]

It’s frustrating to have a player in the BBA (24 year old Michael Schultz) who is ineligible for this reward because he’s in the majors but he’s also ineligible for 1B specialization because of his age. Realistically there shouldn’t be anything holding him back—the team wants him at 1B.

This reward will probably go away anyhow. There's already a way for you to put him at 1B. Two, actually.
1- you can simply play him at first base
2- you can teach him first base in the Development Lab